How many times did Shatner actually watch it? hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Too Many Accidents Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. You arent a gunfighter, either. Fair enough. I think making guns easy to shoot has gone too far. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Excellent work. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Wont last!. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. They are being replaced with Glocks. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. MPD guns fired on their own twice in 6 months - WISN Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. They function as commanded every time. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. I still own them all. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. P320 Accidental Discharge Still an Issue : r/SigSauer - reddit With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. I dont own a P320. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. There were a lot of changes. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Companies stay silent 2. These officers are not gunfighters. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Theres a couple of possibilities. They didnt have to, but did. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. Marine vet ICE agent sues Sig Sauer for $10M claiming pistol shot him We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, They suck and Im awesome!, 2. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Nope. Sig P320 discharge while holstered | Sniper's Hide Forum Still waiting. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. brakes, remember? You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. BAM. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Ron, The sear cams it back a teeny bit. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge Problem - Topic How about something more relevant. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. If the gangster greed monger criminal Capitalvanians in the gun industry had their products under the jurisdiction of the consumer safety administration all the newer striker fired guns would never have been allowed on the market unless they had manual safeties and a safe take down system. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. (It wasnt my gun). First off, no joke on me. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. 00:03. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. 3. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. As they should. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. My gun just went off! You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Was it his fault? Really? The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Dude, your story is THREE years old. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. Sig can burn for all I care. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. Yaaay! . Would you? TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. The Glock fails on both counts. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. 2. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Another p320 "accidental discharge" - The Armory Life Forum And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. He was told to shoot two rounds. Does the P365 have a similar reputation for spontaneous - SIG Talk I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. Whether or not the suits have merit. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. there is no better. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. He was told to shoot two rounds. But breaking news here, skippy. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. Grow up, you aint all that! I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. I also have a manual safety. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! The P320 pistol is a dog. Third, Glock has had problems, too. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them.