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It went well. Shouldice patients have said again and again, how much they enjoy the Shouldice experience. And it IS true that mesh design has improved not just materials, lighter, thinner, for instance Titanium coatings to reduce foreign body reactions, so problems 2 or 3 years ago may be referring to old technology. And if not, would I need further surgery in my 60s if I gain a few pounds. 8. The example of my coworker is different. Update from my initial posts: Its coming up on two years (mid-Sep 17) since I had my right side inguinal hernia done by Dr Lisi in Collingwood G&M Hospital using laparoscopic surgery and mesh. My husband went in, doctor said lose weight and i will do it. The rigidity of the program is old school military in nature and does not seem to be keeping pace with evolution. Hopefully you find an answer. IMO unless someone events a hypoallergenic mesh that is proven to be inert in human flesh for 40+ years that allows nerves to grow around it without hindrance then I think hernia mesh repair days are numbered. Mesh or the Shouldice method? Our first available appointment is in July of 2023. Toronto Transit. So you are absolutely right, there should be requirements for all surgeons and health care providers to follow evidence based medicine and try and make patients better. Or it isnt the mesh itself so much as the insertion procedure? I think it depends on the surgeon involved and what your expectations are around the surgery. Shouldice effectively skims off elective procedures in a very healthy, wealthy, and slimsegment of the population that is extremely motivated to get their hernias repaired atthis private clinic. Placed in a room with patient who had surgery the day prior. In assessing them, serious consideration has to be given to the culture of the organization and the importance of preserving it in a service delivery system. She asked me to monitor for fever and other signs of infection and to wait a few more days. But ask yourselves this: is it really that important a year later if you slept in an uncomfortable bed for a few days if you have no chronic pain or ever have to worry about developing it? 80%| 10. Theyre like impossible to find it seems these days. (LogOut/ I did read the article. Your kidding yourself trying to talk anyone into not going here for a repair Both the surgeons i had had well over 10000 repairs and the first one was nearing 30000. Are hernias covered by OHIP? At this point I am out $980.00, I am more sore than I was at the same time following two mesh repairs, the in-hospital conditions/regimen were not as conducive to recovery as being at home. If anything, they may even feel lucky and appreciate that money has brought them these benefits. OUR PATIENT CARE When you come to Shouldice, you can expect to have a positive and pleasant experience. Here you will find current wait times for Niagara Health's Emergency Departments and Urgent Care Centres. To decrease the text size, press and hold down the command key on a Mac or the windows key on PC, then press the minus (-) key. We joked about standing by the front door and dropping our pjamas for the new intake. Whether that fear of mesh is warranted, I do not know. Best of luck Dean. The day after and two days after the operation I walked around the Shouldice property which helped with circulation and recovery. It was originally founded during World War 2 to allow for young men to have their hernias repaired before going off to fight. I would address your concerns with the operating surgeon. Should I wait or should I see a surgeon right away? Studies show that half of all recurrent hernias develop many years after the original repair. The worst things said seem to be about the dcor of the hospital, the way the nurses and doctors treat you/pillows too small/beds like rubber etc. My personal experience is that my husband moved a piano for me 20 years ago. Poor nights sleep (roommate having pain, snoring, up through the night for pain meds, temperature check by nurse at some point, etc). You are right, there is not a lot of good information for women in your situation. Are you willing to be more specific about the nature of your problems post op? Registration will begin at 8:00AM and will close once we have reached the maximum number of appointments available that day. So Im going to outline some of my problems with the Shouldice clinic, which is held up around the world as a great Canadian healthcare success story. It was originally founded during World War 2 to allow for young men to have their hernias repaired before going off to fight. So one last confession. No referral is required. Different policies will exist. I had the left side done 11 yrs ago @ Shouldice and have had no issues with pain or recurrence and I dont avoid any activity, including heavy lifting. In speaking with their surgeons, they are looking to have their technique more widely adopted and have recently had visiting doctors from the UK and are making efforts to have the technique more widely known. There were no significant differences in chronic pain, complications and post-operative stay. Very interesting. Study is here- older and from 2004. If someone has a hernia surgery at one hospital and then develops a complication they could easily end up at the emergency department of some other hospital having the repair done by a completely different surgeon. I despise shoultice because they refuse to operate on any patients over weight. Also, they dont just do simple hernia surgeries on skinny people. Also, I would check w your insurance company before travelling. You, and others like you, in other words. Any tips? My concern is with the use of mesh on a growing teenage boy. Now the Shouldice clinic does do something I agree with in part. Pitfalls and Danger Points Infection Hemorrhage Injury to bladder and bowel Postoperative testicular atrophy and hydrocele Chronic postoperative pain Ejaculatory dysfunction Hernia recurrence 5. shouldice offers a social experience. State/public schools teach who theyre told to teach meaning everyone else who doesnt get to go to the private schools. I was suprised by your posting. In fact, after asking permission and explaining the purpose, they live-streamed my operation to a Surgeons conference in Victoria, BC. Hello Justin. Possibly related to how much private insurance you carry. No-show patients cost around $200 per unused time slot, and the average no-show rate for most U.S. practices hovers around 20%. The buddy system helps to reduce stress and anxiety and prepares you for a confident recovery. He did get a cyst in his rear about 2 1/2 years ago, the surgeon offered to take a look. First time insurance paid 80 pecent That was 5 years ago and as you know us health care has changed dramatically Laat June when I had my second side done I was told nothing.. The short time before my surgery I couldnt find anything definitive saying mesh was good or bad. In fact, the most over investigated, over treated patients are likely to think they have great care, when the opposite is the truth. Thanks for sharing your positive experience Kram. There are certainly many issues to be factored in but as a patient my number 1 concern will always be having surgeons working in environments that are conducive to producing good outcomes for patients and I have not yet seen any convincing arguments for disallowing the development of specialties though I do have concerns about the influence of profit as a motivating factor. They do not have to do emergency general surgery, ever, how convienient. There is a sunlit caf for reading and relaxation and a cheerful common room, where patients often gather for a friendly game of cards. I have only good things to say about the Shouldice! My hernias were small (umbilical and femoral) and related to pregnancies and not a previous incision. I had inguinal hernia repair at Shouldice in June 2017. It has been repairing hernias for decades. Less with lap but google complications of lap inguinal hernia repairs and you wouldnt touch it with a barge pole. If hernia repair is right for you, well set a hospital admission date that is convenient for your schedule. We never rush you through surgery and send you home the same day; thats very stressful for both patients and their families. The hospital also. The place isrun a bit like a hernia boot camp, which I really had no issue with. 0. I was referred to a surgeon by my pcp and met with him shortly after my pcp said I had a hernia. Shouldice Hospital Hospital #1 of 506 Facility in Thornhill, Ontario 3 Doctors Call Clinic View Map & Address Unavailable Ratings Doctors Top Facilities in Thornhill, ON Shouldice Hospital #1 of 506 Sunlight Dental Clinic #2 of 506 Matlis Medical, Urgent Walk-in Clinic, Sports Medicine Clinic #3 of 506 Grandview Dental Care #4 of 506 In addition to issues of capacity and organizational analysis, describes a well-focused, well-managed . The first time I was sick with a high white blood cell count and they send me back home this was 5 years ago, 3 years ago I tried again and this time I had diabetes and they told me to go back home on the day of the surgery because I was coughing too much, the reason I was coughing was because of Ramipril a HBP medication. If the patient already has chronic pain after the first repair, the recurrence is not likely the cause. minutes at a time, several times a day during the first few days after surgery If you are unable to have a bowel movement following surgery, a mild laxative such as Milk of . My room mate (who had 10) yelped a few times, but he didnt strike me as a complainer. I sympathize with you and your husband. Ive contacted Shouldice and would much rather prefer not having a foreign object inside of me, especially given that this is my first ever surgery. To get the best results from your hernia repair, you should be in the healthiest possible condition for your operation. Shouldice I learned the name even before it had become personally relevant and noted it. My father needs a hernia operation. Five days after surgery Im still in quite a bit of pain, and Im finding Tylenol to still be a must. He takes the time to explain everything to you, during the consultation, before the surgery, and after the surgery. As for the staples, I had 16 and having them removed I hardly felt a thing. Finally, I am sorry you are experiencing problems and I sincerely hope they are at the lower end of the spectrum. To increase the text size, press and hold down the command key on a Mac or the windows key on PC, then press the plus (+) key. Those who react badly to mesh most are apparently young, slim females (usually not Inguinal). Instead, youll stay as our guest for a few days, while you participate in a holistic, professionally supervised program of healing and recovery. For over 75 years the Surgeons and staff of Shouldice Hospital have dedicated themselves to repairing abdominal wall hernias; it's all we do, having performed over 400,000 successful hernia repairs using our natural tissue technique without the use of surgical mesh and its serious complications. I just want the best treatment possible with the lowest chronic pain! The vast majority of procedures are day surgery, or what we call same day admits, where they are admitted (usually after a lot more major surgery than hernia repair) after their operation. 905-695-4967 * smahdavi@shouldice.com Cindy Giroux - Business Development Manager 905-695-4908 * cgiroux@shouldice.com: I dont know where you got your information that the Shouldice doesnt use mesh but this is incorrect. Two questions: (1) do you think a surgeon who did 30 laparoscopies in residency and 5 shortly after in private practice is sufficiently experienced to do bilateral inguinal hernia repair with the TEP method? Shouldice refused to accommodate my disability. I love doing a variety of different procedures in patients of all ages, sexes, shapes and sizes. Chronic groin pain after hernia repair is a concern, no question. The techniques used by the hernia specialists at Shouldice dramatically reduce the risk of recurrent hernias to approximately 1% over a lifetime. We now have detailed records on more than 400,000 patients and maintain one of the most comprehensive database on hernia repair in the world. There are many companies which manufacture mesh (hundreds) and yes they like to make money. Thanks. An article I just read after using your suggested search term called Inguinal Hernias: A Current Review of an Old Problem mentions recurrence rate at a specialized center (Shouldice hospital) being 0.7% to 1.7%, but Shouldice technique done at a general hospital with a general surgeon was as high as 15%. I cant get a job people think Im pregnant or will need a leave of absence. Shouldice patients frequen6tly return to work in a few days; the average total time off is eight days. Princess of Wales Theatre Royal Alexandra Theatre CAA Ed Mirvish TheatreCAA Theatre, 7750 Bayview Avenue,Thornhill, Ontario,Canada L3T 4A3View Map, Tel: 905-889-1125 Fax: 905-889-4216 Canada: 1-800-291-7750 U.S./International: 1-855-328-3423 postoffice@shouldice.com, Shouldice Hospital is committed to excellence in serving all patients including people with disabilities.Learn More. I had minimal bruising and swelling, and am mostly back to normal a few days after surgery. They weigh the risk to both. I would suspect you will look back at the experience with a fondness when it is all over even I also drove up both times. I have 5 years on one and one year on the latest already Also agree out of the 30 or so both times there were next to no pain or issues just days later.. I am scheduled to have a right side repair done at Shouldice next week. Most of us felt it was an efficient operation and we could see why they do things that way it was logical. I had a double inguinal done at Shouldice 10 weeks ago and was in a fair bit of discomfort for the first 8 weeks but am feeling much better now and am thankful I have no mesh to disrupt things down the road. He went to a top medical school and top intern in residency program. Relaxing views and an estate-like setting are an important part of the total Shouldice experience and help to stimulate the bodys own natural abilities to heal. We offer a complete and holistic recovery program that promotes healing and a rapid return to normal activities. Chronic disabling pain which needs ongoing pain medication and/or other management (including mesh removal in the most severe cases) is thankfully extremely rare after groin hernia repair, be it with or without mesh. C. It was recently taken over by a private company and is no longer in the hands of the original Shouldice family. ( I know I already said that but they were really that bad). Groin hernia repair is a day surgery procedure in Ontario (anywhere but the Shouldice clinic) with no overnight stay required, unless complications arise or in very frail or sick patients. I had an inguinal hernia repair at Shouldice 4 days ago. [1] The hospital specializes in hernia care. The first consultation is walk in which for me meant a 3 hour wait in a run down old estate living room. The Hospital was founded in 1945 and performs over 7000 hernia repair operations a year. Mid 30s in age As with Tyler excellent experience both times with100 percent results. I have a large left inguinal hernia and am debating between Shouldice repair and Desarda Repair. ow yeah, 14 Weeks with mesh. The food was better than I expected. Want fast and effectively perfect hernia repair? Well that was 2 years ago, he did lose 45 lbs and the doctor still refused to do the operation siting that he had no place to put what was in his testicle area! That is not my opinion, it is just a proven over and over medical fact. Dr. Shouldice developed his innovative technique during World War II, to help young men who were unable to enlist in the military because of their hernias. http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/growing-concerns-in-canada-over-surgical-mesh-usage-recalls-1.3372733, Well, when the media shows the issue its because is over represented. Lets pretend that there is no influence of the medical-pharmaceutical industry on advertising about certain methods and medications as well as on the purchase of the professionals themselves, as is the case in several countries. I would even love to go there and observe their technique, but they are not in the business of educating surgeons, just skimming off our business. As a specialist, I am not allowed tobill OHIP to seepatients without a referral from another doctor, and so we see the double standard growing. Most of the arguments against Shouldice here seem to have very little to do with the actual technique, pain afterwards or recurrence (irritation, I thought, at the Southfork-like set-up and possibly also at their very existence fuelling endless questions like mine: is mesh a problem or isnt it? 3. shouldice provides hernia repair with a short hospital stay. There is some evidence that using generalistsis a cheaper, better way to run a health care system and I believe that. What happened to good doctors? There is a limit of 2 visitors per patient. I have had direct experience with Shouldice where my husband had a large abdominal hernia repair and they did use mesh and the head surgeon gave a long history of their use of mesh at one of our appoinments. It seems like a roll of the dice. Shouldice also claims that its model allows it to perform at a lower cost per case than public hospitals, and that wait times are a fraction of those in the public system. About a week later the pain had completely subsided and I had no further significant pain. Im about 2hrs from Shouldice. Or that you are cynically making a play for a vast damages pay out. I have not had to take any pain medication. The reason my wife and I offer the Shouldice op in Kent UkK is the very high incidence of chronic pain after open mesh repair. However there is more to it. The risks and benefits of mesh should be discussed with a general surgeon. Posted on September 8, 2011 by Ewen. It you want a manicure, a pedicure, an espresso in the pre op room and general pampering go to a Beverly Hills clinic; This place is all about a lasting repair at a reasonable price (my bill was much less than the initial quote) with minimal fuss, and, critically, NO MESH. The last one before going there was a laproscopic surgery done by a cocky 40-something that failed before he even left the hospital & then turned into a fistuala which the surgeon was in denial about for months & could have killed him. Showered and dressed first thing. My first week after surgery at Shouldice wasnt too bad. Im looking forward to lesmcc1s response. Thirty five is a fair number if done completely by the surgeon in question I would think. TORONTO Shouldice Clinic Hernia Repair - August 2020 2,289 views Oct 22, 2020 27 Dislike Share Save Herve Del Norte 542 subscribers I provide a summary of my recent hernia repair surgery at the. You . Pain is tolerable(sensation of burning/stabbing in groin) that subsides quickly with reduction of effort/strain. A tearing feeling (like being stabbed) from bowel movements is prevalent; on the positive side, I had my first pain free sneeze this morning. Or is it because, here it comes, that dangerous phrase Weve always done it this way? Shouldice specializes in this unique approach to hernia repair. But to watch how efficient and careful the surgeon was, isolating nerves to make sure they werent damaged, reconstructing the inguinal ring, and the detailed suturing technique, I am very satisfied with the result. The Shouldice will not be handing over their data anytime soon, unless forced to, I can say that with confidence. Id stick to an open or lap repair with mesh applied externally. Would you go to a dentist or have any other surgicla procedure done without knowing a thing about the surgeon? The Shouldice Clinic has demonstrated the procedure's durability and safety with 75 years of experience. So why would you do so for an inguinal hernia repair, a surgery that is far from simple and fraught with potential serious complications, mesh or no mesh. Surgeons need to do emergency work or perforated appendicitis, gangrenous gallbladders, and blocked bowels (sometimes stuck in hernias) would not be dealt with, and patients would die. All patients will be actively screened at the front door. I play sports 3 days a week, I run competitively, etc, and virtually no pain. There is nothing spectacular about this facility. I will really appreciate your informed feedback and sincerely hope that maybe more folks will follow your lead in helping make society better informed. Hi there what do you believe offers the least chronic pain for hernia surgery (inguinal)? I honestly cannot recall the last time I admitted a patient the night before surgery, except when I was a clinical clerk, and that is going back a long time now. Mesh is known to have a potential side effect of chronic, possibly serious pain, and potential difficult mesh removal later which leaves the person changed for the worse. They do not deserve the reputation they have. As for tension free vs not, as I said in my blog, standard of care for most institutions is tension free (ie using mesh). Shouldice is a business and I understand that like any business its primary goal is to make money. Indeed, expansion of Shouldice's facilties seems a far better alternative than asking patients to wait. So this is a tricky situation. (As does everyone). No pain at all and I never took any of the prescribed pain meds. If that is the case, I would rather stay in NYC but I guess I will have to make the trip to find out. DO NOT EAT OR DRINK ANYTHING, including water, after midnight the night before the procedure unless instructed otherwise by your surgeon. Hilton Garden Inn300 Commerce Valley DriveThornhill, ON L3T 7X3905-709-60083 miles from the hospitalTo receive a 10% discounted Shouldice rate click here. This is why they went to Shouldice in the first place, in the Toronto area it has a kind of mythical acclaim. Visitors will not be permitted in the patient rooms. I was told my mesh was new but found that it hasnt changed much since 2009 when Bard first came out with this polypropylene mesh. Ill take my chances with mesh next time all day long. Now I have chronic pain and wondering if I should of stuck out the pain another week or two to find another Dr. for another opinion. 3) Shouldice use sutures only, minimising foreign material being implanted into body, hence minimising most of afore mentioned risks associated with nerve damage. Often times we do not own up to our own responsibility in the situation. For personal comparisons I am a 50+ year old male in average/above average health. I asked if he felt I would need mesh and he said he didnt know (fair enough) however, I then asked what type of mesh is used and he said ,mesh. Most general surgeons will tell you that they cannot get patients to lose weight before surgery, and that has certainly been my experience. 2 The Lichtenstein procedure was learned from a book, 10 instructional videos, and personal communication with Irving L. Lichtenstein, MD. Marcello..whats your point and why are you here? I know Shouldice will also cost me more than getting the mesh procedure done in-network here in the US but I feel that at least Ill be giving myself a chance of not exposing myself to a permanently inserted foregin object. This is so helpful! Drs. I can NOT for the life of me understand the following: When I went for my pre-op. 1. shouldice offers reliable hernia repairs, with few relapses. I wish the government would impose laws about refusing patients surgeries and i wish Shoultice was audited! Absolutely not. We all want the best, most cost effective public system but critiques must look at the whole system. To increase the text size, press and hold down the command key on a Mac or the windows key on PC, then press the plus (+) key. I wonder what steps should I take once Im ready to see a new surgeon in Ontario? The recurrence rate for incisional hernia repair without mesh would approach 100 % for a large incisional hernia, so I (and most other general surgeons) would likely not recommend repair without the use of mesh. Here in the United States physicians can opt out of the Medicare system (for elderly) and refuse to treat medicare patients. For over 75 years the Surgeons and staff of Shouldice Hospital have dedicated themselves to repairing abdominal wall hernias; it's all we do, having performed over 400,000 successful hernia repairs using our natural tissue technique without the use of surgical mesh and its serious complications. Is your surgeon prepared to do anything for you? Post author: Post published: February 16, 2022 Post category: gymnastika pre deti dubravka Post comments: cooper hospital kronos login cooper hospital kronos login When asked about mesh and its complications I was told not to worry about them or the mesh as its good. Thats the bunch of b.s. I wanted to provide an update on my above comment and how my recovery has gone. Having to go in the day before surgery and staying 4 nights seemed odd in this day and age. I have been wearing the orthosis for six years. My email is attached here if you would like to email me! I agree. We provide a lifetime of support to all our patients through our annual follow-up program. The standard of care when the Shouldice was formed was a primary (suture) repair and lots of days in hospital recovering from the pain of having your own tissues reamed together to repair the hernia. Once youre admitted to the hospital, youll meet other hernia patients. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10452261. Ive had it for about 1.5 yrs now and because its not painful and really just a small bump Ive not bothered with it until last fall when I saw a local general surgeon about it and scheduled the surgery for May as I go away in the winter. The collegial environment of you and your co-wounded seems to be a plus for most. We've found that this peer-to-peer mentoring is important. Have no perceptible issues with umbilical repair but under strain do feel some discomfort at the lower end of inguinal repair. I would say you will very likely be fine, I wouldnt worry about your decision at this point. Shouldice Hospital is not responsible for these services. Certainly not brochure material. Last year, it had a record year and performed nearly 7,500 operations. Having said that, the risk of recurrence is much higher with umbilical and epigastric hernias in pregnancy than with groin hernias. Sorry your husband had such a tough time with his hernia, hope he is doing well now. Surgeons get really angry when people are allowed to do elective surgeries without providing on call services, which is essentially what the Shouldice is doing. Sharing the experience with a bunch of other patients was a big plus in my opinion. One might wonder why you could not find a surgeon in New York willing to do a repair without mesh- are all of these surgeons incompetent, immoral, or both? I can accept that this is work that should perhaps be compensated at a different level because of its extra demands. I came up to Shouldice from the States not because of concern over use of mesh but because of concern over general anesthesia which I was told I would have in the States. I have had a similar issue with the mesh (surgery May 2017) and tried a nerve block. The limited walk-in spaces are available on a first-come, first-served basis. Success is defined by the patient as as good as new and somewhat differently by many surgeons, who would probably view that as unrealistic I am absolutely NOT suggesting a conspiracy but why mesh can be a problem is still not well understood. Yes, some implants are great achievements like one of my friends who is 38 and got a pacemaker at 29, but I believe others have no place when they can be avoided with proper training. Shouldice is the gold standard of no-mesh hernia repair. Shouldice Hospital is a bit of curious place. Thanks for your blog. To me, mesh is the risk here, not hernia recurrence with pure tissue. Standard and mandatory wake up is 0530 for all. NDP Leader Jack Layton acknowledged yesterday he visited a private Ontario medical clinic to treat a hernia in the mid-1990s, but dismissed suggestions it undercut his credibility as a public . I havent made the decision yet myself, Shouldice or mesh.